Actual Scores given to Employers?

Originally Posted by urysohn

There are also caveats in some study programs which provide special treatment for scores of 0's and 5's.

Correct. My company is interested in how badly a student fails. The logic is, if you fail with a 4 or 5, you show that you did some serious studying. If you fail with a 0, you were wasting company's time on other personal things. So you won't get any more company-paid study time. Maybe this is not fair, but hey...

Oh, and of course, if you pass, a copy of your grade slip is required as part of the official document to process your raise.

[paranoid]

In our study program, it is explicitly spelled out that a requirement of an exam program participant (ie a condition of exam prep benefits) is turning in the grade slips. I think the raise section says passing, so if someone (I guess someone on both sides) wanted to make a federal case of it here, I think they'd get their raise, but they might not get study time next time.

We don't have any thing spelled out for failing scores, but as a manager, I'd sure be more likely to fight for the person with a four or five than a zero or one. I've seen people given a lot less lattitude in how they take study time if they have bad patterns (ie 0, pass, 0, pass -- no out of office study time for you).

[Abnormal]

if the written policy is "passing" = exam raise

Absent a copy of your pass slip I will not know officially for months at least that you've passed. More importantly, the last thing you really want to do is piss of your boss over something as trivial as your marks when you pass. That sort of petty behavior will come back to bite you down the road. Too much of what goes on re promotions, internal transfers, etc. is completely discretionary. Personally I can't imagine making decisions based on actual pass scores [actually not true - I once had a six exam ASA apply for a relatively junior P&C position - they listed their marks (8's &9's) in about the third line of their resume - I never read past that line and immediately declined them].

As I said, if you fail I could care less what your score is. I'm more worried about how often you fail, not how badly you fail.

Given that I'm on the CAS side, after the first couple of exams, you either pass or fail. The only time you get a mark is if you fail. Why should I care?

Having said that, if the concern is that you regularly pass but always get sixes, that's probably a plus - you were smart enough not to overstudy.

[Buru Buru]

Originally Posted by paranoid

I've seen people given a lot less lattitude in how they take study time if they have bad patterns (ie 0, pass, 0, pass -- no out of office study time for you).

That seems like a really good pattern to me. 50% of the time they are passing!? That's probably better than the SOA average. Who cares what the score is when they fail.

[paranoid]

I left out some details to avoid anyone guessing who I was talking about. It was pretty obvious he was NOT studying on the study days. This 'evidence' didn't show up on the sittings he passed. This man is mindboggling in terms of intelligence. BTW, the pattern improved noticably when we started making him study in the office.

[sulfugr]

Originally Posted by Abnormal

[actually not true - I once had a six exam ASA apply for a relatively junior P&C position - they listed their marks (8's &9's) in about the third line of their resume - I never read past that line and immediately declined them].

Did you dismiss them because they were applying for too low a position or because they scored 8s and 9s ? Is is the 8 and 9 that actually bothered you ?

As I said, if you fail I could care less what your score is. I'm more worried about how often you fail, not how badly you fail.

Given that I'm on the CAS side, after the first couple of exams, you either pass or fail. The only time you get a mark is if you fail. Why should I care?

Having said that, if the concern is that you regularly pass but always get sixes, that's probably a plus - you were smart enough not to overstudy.

What if they're just really smart and get a 10 simply because they understand the material very very well ? How could that possibly be a negative ?

[Traci]

More importantly, the last thing you really want to do is piss of your boss over something as trivial as your marks when you pass. That sort of petty behavior will come back to bite you down the road.

Well -- I've been in the exact situation we're talking about - I think I've talked about it here before.

It wasn't petty - and it didn't come back to bite me -- it actually earned me the respect of peers and higher-ups for refusing to turn in my score absent any good reason they could give me for wanting it.

"It's just a new policy" - wasn't good enough. "No one else will see them" a) I don't believe you - and b) then why do you need them?

Too much of what goes on re promotions, internal transfers, etc. is completely discretionary.

EXACTLY

I'm not one to go over the top wrt exams. I want to pass them - I don't need a 10 on every one.

Let's say Jane and I are at the same level - and up for promotion. Some higher - up looks at our exam scores. Jane has mostly 8's and 9's - I have more 6's and 7's. Is anyone going to remember that I carried a full client workload during exam seasons? I highly doubt it.

Originally Posted by Traci

Better make sure your written exam policy states that reporting actual scores is mandatory when I'm hired.

Cuz if the written policy is "passing" = exam raise, then I've already proved that I passed.

Dangerous path to follow. I think it says worlds about how lucky you have been in working for good employers who don't feel like being hardasses about things. Or maybe it says good things about the past employees those employers have had. I also do not crack down on any of the technical requirements in our student program (and I believe ours does technically require grade slips to be submitted). But once I get burned by somebody who wants to abuse the system, will I be able to be as lenient with the next student to follow?

Originally Posted by cubedbee

Is it even possible to obtain a transcript that indicates your past scores from the SOA, or can I just never work for Ury?

Don't know. I'm not one of those who wants to see them. But if I did ask to see them and got some snooty "screw off" answer (as opposed to "oh I'm sorry, I don't actually keep those slips"), then I'd have a problem. Or you would, rather.
I'm not one who wants that stuff. I'm just one of those people who is baffled by the prevalent student belief that how you do on your exams (beyond pass/fail) is none of your employer's business. We pay for exams, we pay for books, we pay for seminars, we give you paid study-time, we give generous raises and bonuses. And considering how little you can actually contribute when you first come out of school, we give you a pretty dang good entry-level salary. Don't take on the arrogant "none of your business" attitude when your employer wants a few details about how you're putting all that time and money to use.

[Traci]

Dangerous path to follow. I think it says worlds about how lucky you have been in working for good employers who don't feel like being hardasses about things. Or maybe it says good things about the past employees those employers have had.

Geez - would it kill you to say - maybe it says something about how well one can use diplomacy and tact - while maintaining a principle.

We pay for exams, we pay for books, we pay for seminars, we give you paid study-time, we give generous raises and bonuses. And considering how little you can actually contribute when you first come out of school, we give you a pretty dang good entry-level salary.

Right - and I make (made - actually - cuz this was a decade ago) dang sure I'm worth every penny. As an entry-level ee, I assumed my first job was to figure out how to be indispensible.

If you can't guage my performance without exam scores, then I don't want to work for you.

Originally Posted by paranoid

I left out some details to avoid anyone guessing who I was talking about. It was pretty obvious he was NOT studying on the study days. This 'evidence' didn't show up on the sittings he passed. This man is mindboggling in terms of intelligence. BTW, the pattern improved noticably when we started making him study in the office.

If they passed then who cares what they did with their study time? Really. They clearly put in sufficient time and you don't have to pay them for time off for that exam again.

Prove to me that you passed (either SOA transcript with no grade or CAS "pass") and I'll process your raise. I don't need to see grade transcripts. If you're screwing around and not passing either you'll be kicked out of the study program, or you have other performance issues I'm going to be all over your *ss about and you will improve or be gone. That simple.