Yet another discussion about religion

[The Mister]

<font size=2>I can tell you all are SOOOO looking forward to the ensuing discussion :
http://www.hatrack.com/research/questions/q0066.shtml

Regardless of what responses this post gets, I probably won't have much to say myself. I should point out that I don't agree with everything written in the above link, I do agree with most of it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Mister on 2001-10-03 15:25 ]</font>

[The Mad Hatter]

OK, I'll bite.
I still think the jury is out on whether religion on the whole is good or bad.
My opinion is that in order for humanity to move to the next level of civility, we will need to discard religion (at the very least, we need to discard religious tenets and doctrine and leave in place only the values of compassion and reason - but these values don't require religion at all, they are natural).
Anyway, here is a viewpoint that is pretty close to my own attitude wrt both Islam and religion in general.

http://capitalismmagazine.com/2001/o...slam_fault.htm

[E. Blackadder]

1: My opinion is that people need an outlet in which to express non-rationality. And that the hearafter is the perfect milleu for this non-rationality.

After all, which would you prefer: The guy next door thinks he's going to Heaven; or the guy next door thinks that the dictatorship of the proletariat is just what the doctor ordered?

2: Religious people have a blueprint against which to measure their actions. You might disagree with the blueprint (as might I), but an enduring blueprint has credibility that "make-it-up-as-you-go" doesn't.

3: I've heard that prayer for others is documented to work in areas such as patient recovery. If true, then s o m e t h i n g is happening, though I will not shove anything down your throat.

4: And an attitude that "everything happens for the best" also seems to have a positive effect on life. Of course this can't literally be true without a master plan. Unless it become a self-fulfilling prophesy, in which case the attitude is even more important.

5: I've found over the years that when it's evident that I need to learn something down to the core of my being, I usually do.

So, right or wrong, I'm going with faith. Is it the Almighty? Is it some collective subconcious? Is it The Force? Whatever it is, it's something, and it's not dead.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

The young cynic's central idea in the posted link is that religion has done more harm than good. I'm not getting sanctimonious, but this sounds like the voice of someone who hasn't had religion in his life and been able to see the positives. If your only view of religion is from turning on the news and hearing about abortion clinic bombings and Muslim terrorists, then you probably will believe that religion is bad. On the other hand, people who quietly live their lives according to such principles as:

"Thou shalt not kill"
"Love thy neighbor as thyself"
"Honor thy mother and father"

...don't make the evening news, but they have a positive effect on every person they come in contact with, even this young cynic if he would open his eyes to see it.

[Botsy]

I don't think the kid was saying that religion is bad, but was wondering if it caused more bad than good, and I think that it is a valid question. The response blows him off as ignorant and I don't believe that's true.

I was raised Catholic and learned a great deal about how to be a better person and not just because God said so. I believe that a belief in a God can bring out the best in people. I also believe that one can be just as compassionate and giving without having such faith in God.

Is religion bad? I don't think so, but people seem to use it as an reason/excuse to commit heinous acts, and that can make it hard to determine, especially to a youth

[WWSituation]

I remember hearing a great quote once, pardon me if I miss a word or so:

"Religion is like a fart....your's smells great, but everybody else's stinks!"

[The Mad Hatter]

"Thou shalt not kill"
"Love thy neighbor as thyself"
"Honor thy mother and father"

You don't need religion to get behind any of these. Nor were the notions invented by the jews.
For the most part,we credit religion for the assertions that we agree with anyway. We ignore those that we do not agree with. For examle, contrast "Honor thy mother and father" versus "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple"
Christian don't talk about the virtue of the second passage much because it has none.
Religion is fine when not taken too seriously. When taken seriously, all sorts of bad stuff easily follows.

Since I became an unbeliever about 15 years ago, one my most common statements has been "The most dangerous people on the planet are the one who are convinced that God is on their side". This is as true as ever.

[42]

On 2001-10-04 12:12, Botsy wrote: I believe that a belief in a God can bring out the best in people. I also believe that one can be just as compassionate and giving without having such faith in God.

Exactly - well said, Botsy! Being a good person does not require following the pomp and dogma of any particular religion.