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  #51  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:01 PM
Uncle Stu Uncle Stu is offline
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MN, because is is so susceptible to having meltdowns.

On the other hand, maybe that lends him credibility.
Have you ever noticed how much he edits his posts? That one, for instance was edited 3 times. Anytime he posts more than 3 sentences or so you're guaranteed a pile of edits.

That should also detract from his credibility.
I should note however, that he is credible when he keeps a cool head. Only when he is melting down does he start to say things he doesn't mean or believe.
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  #52  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:05 PM
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MNBridge MNBridge is offline
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Paul Brand cause he makes up his own realities,
At least my reality doesn't involve the belief system that any method of assembling a watch is of equal significance.
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Originally Posted by MNBride
The teacher took his watch and put in in a box. He said the chance of the universe being like it is through 'luck' would be smaller than the chance of him taking his watch appart shaking the box and having it end up back together. At this I immediately thought "But the parts have to end up some way" and I could say the same thing about each of those ways. So you proved nothing.


Did you miss the point the Sunday School teacher was making here? The watch is not reall ya watch it's the ........ never mind.

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puts words into others mouths, and intentional misreads comments to fit to his own agenda.
Actually you fully realize that I do not intentionally misread comments, and when I do, I withdraw them. There are many comments you have made that are incredibly offensive, and you have not withdrawn one of them.
I don't try to be offensive, but with all the twisting of words done by others rational discussion isn't very useful.

I don't withdraw them because I do want to.
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  #53  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:12 PM
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Paul Brand Paul Brand is offline
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Originally Posted by MNBridge
The teacher took his watch and put in in a box. He said the chance of the universe being like it is through 'luck' would be smaller than the chance of him taking his watch appart shaking the box and having it end up back together. At this I immediately thought "But the parts have to end up some way" and I could say the same thing about each of those ways. So you proved nothing.


Did you miss the point the Sunday School teacher was making here? The watch is not reall ya watch it's the ........ never mind.
The point was that random processes don't put a watch together. He uses this as an analogy to life on earth. Did you miss this? You counter that a random process will produce something guaranteed. I counter that while that is true, everything else you produce is meaningless. I believe this was implied by your Sunday School teacher. My point is that if this is the reason why you rejected theism, you didn't choose a very good reason.
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  #54  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:21 PM
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The Mad Hatter The Mad Hatter is offline
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How's my credibility now?
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Someone tells us that God loves us as a father loves his children. We are reassured. But then something awful happens. Some qualification is made.... We are reassured again. But then perhaps we ask: what is this assurance of God's (appropriately qualified) love worth, what is this apparent guarantee really a guarantee against? Just what would have to happen not merely (morally and wrongly) to tempt but also (logically and rightly) to entitle us to say "God does not love us" or even "God does not exist"?
-- Antony Flew
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  #55  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:24 PM
Harry Harry is offline
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Originally Posted by MNBridge
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Originally Posted by MNBridge
The teacher took his watch and put in in a box. He said the chance of the universe being like it is through 'luck' would be smaller than the chance of him taking his watch appart shaking the box and having it end up back together. At this I immediately thought "But the parts have to end up some way" and I could say the same thing about each of those ways. So you proved nothing.


Did you miss the point the Sunday School teacher was making here? The watch is not reall ya watch it's the ........ never mind.
The point was that random processes don't put a watch together. He uses this as an analogy to life on earth. Did you miss this? You counter that a random process will produce something guaranteed. I counter that while that is true, everything else you produce is meaningless. I believe this was implied by your Sunday School teacher. My point is that if this is the reason why you rejected theism, you didn't choose a very good reason.
I thought the point was that in the random process, the probability of getting a working watch is the same as the probability of any of the other possible configurations?
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  #56  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:26 PM
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Paul Brand Paul Brand is offline
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How's my credibility now?


Now you just have to change your location to "Doggie Heaven"

And change your name to "Happy Hatter"
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  #57  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Brand
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Originally Posted by MNBridge
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Originally Posted by MNBridge
The teacher took his watch and put in in a box. He said the chance of the universe being like it is through 'luck' would be smaller than the chance of him taking his watch appart shaking the box and having it end up back together. At this I immediately thought "But the parts have to end up some way" and I could say the same thing about each of those ways. So you proved nothing.


Did you miss the point the Sunday School teacher was making here? The watch is not reall ya watch it's the ........ never mind.
The point was that random processes don't put a watch together. He uses this as an analogy to life on earth. Did you miss this? You counter that a random process will produce something guaranteed. I counter that while that is true, everything else you produce is meaningless. I believe this was implied by your Sunday School teacher. My point is that if this is the reason why you rejected theism, you didn't choose a very good reason.
I thought the point was that in the random process, the probability of getting a working watch is the same as the probability of any of the other possible configurations?
That was MN's point, which I countered above.
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  #58  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:29 PM
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Griffin 5 Griffin 5 is offline
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I thought the point was that in the random process, the probability of getting a working watch is the same as the probability of any of the other possible configurations?
And it is significantly less than the probability of getting a non-working configuration.
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  #59  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:29 PM
Harry Harry is offline
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Originally Posted by Paul Brand
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Originally Posted by Harry
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Originally Posted by Paul Brand
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Originally Posted by MNBridge
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Originally Posted by MNBridge
The teacher took his watch and put in in a box. He said the chance of the universe being like it is through 'luck' would be smaller than the chance of him taking his watch appart shaking the box and having it end up back together. At this I immediately thought "But the parts have to end up some way" and I could say the same thing about each of those ways. So you proved nothing.


Did you miss the point the Sunday School teacher was making here? The watch is not reall ya watch it's the ........ never mind.
The point was that random processes don't put a watch together. He uses this as an analogy to life on earth. Did you miss this? You counter that a random process will produce something guaranteed. I counter that while that is true, everything else you produce is meaningless. I believe this was implied by your Sunday School teacher. My point is that if this is the reason why you rejected theism, you didn't choose a very good reason.
I thought the point was that in the random process, the probability of getting a working watch is the same as the probability of any of the other possible configurations?
That was MN's point, which I countered above.
How so? How do you know that a random process can't put a watch together if all the parts are there?
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  #60  
Old 12-10-2004, 01:30 PM
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Griffin 5 Griffin 5 is offline
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How so? How do you know that a random process can't put a watch together if all the parts are there?
He didn't say the probability was 0.
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