Help - Crabby kid at home

[wally world]

My older son is almost three. He's at the point where he almost doesn't need a nap during the day. It's kind of off and on at this point.

Problem is, when he doesn't take a nap, he gets to be a handful. He's obviously tired, but if you put him for a nap at 5:00, forget about trying to get him to go to bed at 8:00.

On the other hand, it sure makes it a lot easier on my wife if he still takes a nap during the day. If she gets both boys down at the same time, she can have a good two hours to herself to get stuff done, relax, whatever.

Now yesterday was a prime example. He gets up around 7:00, takes no nap during the day. By 8:00 PM he's totally wiped and he sleeps til 8:30 the next day. Awesome.

The day before....he gets up at 6:30. Passes out in the car on the way home from a trip with Mom to the store. Mom puts him in bed. He sleeps til 4:00-4:30. But then he won't go to bed at 8:00. He's throwing a hissy fit. He comes down numerous times. We put him back in bed. We put up a kid gate to his bedroom door. He climbs over it. He needs a glass of water. We say No. Bigger hissy fit ensues. We tell him if he stays in his bed, we'll get him a cup of water. He finally stays in his room/falls asleep around 10:00.

Any advice on how to make this transition?

[Flora]

I'll be watching this one closely - mine is 2 1/2. The good thing is that daycare insists they spend time on the cot even if they don't sleep. He does sleep there everyday anyway, but on the weekends we tend to have one good day (read: nap) and one bad day (read: no nap)

[Mulan]

Limit the nap in the afternoon to no more than an hour.... and shift bedtime to 8:30. If no nap by 3 pm, then skip all together (or maybe have "quiet time") and make bedtime 7:30.

This is a temporary problem that goes away as 1) he gets a little older, 2) he gets used to more outside time (something about that spring air makes them crabby), and 3) as the days start to get shorter again.

Good luck!

[Pi Man]

hard and fast rule to make your life easier FOREVER

bedtime is bedtime. you don't have to sleep, but there ARE 3 simple rules
1. you must be dressed and ready for bed at the appointed time
2. you do NOT have to sleep
3. you may NOT leave the room or call anyone into your room

this means the kid can play all night if they want to - ALONE IN THEIR ROOM. no bribes, no drinks, no stories, no interventions, no exceptions. screaming is ok, throwing tantrums is fine. if the child leaves the room, calmly, quietly, and swiftly carry the child back to the bedroom, put them back in bed and leave. no talking, yelling, explaining, or coddling from the parent.

This will be tough for a week or two, but once they are used to it, it lasts FOREVER!!!!

Yup, that's what we did. Limit the nap to shorter and shorter time spans - it's a bummer waking them up, but it's what seemed to work.

[42]

Chloroform? :o

[Traci]

I can SO relate to this!

My oldest is almost 4 and we're just now getting to the point where she will take a nap if she needs one - but not over 1 hour - and will still go to bed at night.

Aside from waking her up after an hour - this worked for me:

At 3 she was old enough to understand somewhat of a delayed gratification technique - a sticker chart.

I had two rows of 5 boxes each - one for naptime - one for bedtime. She got a sticker after naptime if she went down without whining or fighting me. Then she got a sticker in the morning if she went to bed with no trouble and stayed in bed all night (I actually tackled the goals one at a time - for a while she got the sticker for staying in bed - then when that became a habit, she got the sticker for not making trouble, whining, etc.)

After filling the chart she got a reward. Started with M&M's - had to up it to a trip to the indoor fun-park - but whatever works.

Younger siblings can help too - I also made a chart for her little sister. Who really had no choice but to stay in bed - she was in a crib! But when the little sister got a sticker and big sister DIDN'T - there was extra motivation!

[Mulan]

Originally Posted by Pi Man

hard and fast rule to make your life easier FOREVER

bedtime is bedtime. you don't have to sleep, but there ARE 3 simple rules
1. you must be dressed and ready for bed at the appointed time
2. you do NOT have to sleep
3. you may NOT leave the room or call anyone into your room

this means the kid can play all night if they want to - ALONE IN THEIR ROOM. no bribes, no drinks, no stories, no interventions, no exceptions. screaming is ok, throwing tantrums is fine. if the child leaves the room, calmly, quietly, and swiftly carry the child back to the bedroom, put them back in bed and leave. no talking, yelling, explaining, or coddling from the parent.

This will be tough for a week or two, but once they are used to it, it lasts FOREVER!!!!

I think this is a good idea.... for some kids in some situations. I have found it is more appropriate for older kids. The kid in wally's question is going through a transition from babyhood and, I believe, needs a little more help and guidance of his parents to learn how to do this, than your suggested method would allow.

[Pi Man]

long version:
yeah, you would think that... we tried this out of pure frustration when ours was big enough for a toddler bed (probably about that age; i forget). he kept getting up and crying and wanting this and that; anything to put off bedtime. this worked for us. we didn't get angry with him or yell or nuttin, just explained the 'rules' in easy terms. he cried all the time and cried for a long time sometimes. but now he's older, 'bedtime' gets him to his room and sticks him there. i remember times where i passed his door on my way to bed (11-12pm) and his light was still on. popped my head in; he was playing with toys because he couldn't sleep. about 20 minutes later, lites went out and he went down. funny to see how long the habit has lasted.
(just my $10.02)

short version:
if he's old enough to get out of bed, i think he's old enough to try this.
(just my $0.02)

[Mulan]

Originally Posted by Pi Man

long version:
yeah, you would think that...

Why the rancor? Do we have a history that I'm not aware of? How would you know what I think? I agreed with you on the method, but disagreed that while struggling with nap issues would be the best time to try it. I've used your method with great success, so I have nothing against it.... just my $1,000.02.