Help for a lost college student?

[frustratedstudent]

I have been spending this semester desperately seeking an internship in the actuarial field. Despite applying to as many as I could find (50+) and interviewing with a number of companies, I've yet to receive an offer for a summer job. I still have applications out there, and I have an interview with ISO in a week or so, but I must admit that I'm becoming increasingly skeptical.

Allow me now to go into my background, I am a junior math and economics double major at Cornell University with a 3.7 gpa. I have NOT passed any actuarial exams as of yet; I am sitting for my first in May and feel very confident that I can pass it easily (based on my background in the material, and looking at old tests). Is this lack of examinations what is causing all of my frustrations? If I do not find a summer internship, am I up a creek without a paddle for an entry level position when I graduate? What is the best area of the field to enter (I've heard P&C)?

Additionally, I've grown pessimistic in my views of the working world as a whole. In perusing the forums, I noticed that so many posts express dissatisfaction with the profession, from it's convoluted test system to the allegedly inadequate pay. I heard that this is one of the best jobs in America, why are so many people upset with it? If it is truly a bad occupation, what is a better one in a related field? Where are the people who love this job, and have found it to be lucrative? If you're one of them, it would mean the world to me just to hear that you exist.

[Cloister]

Originally Posted by frustratedstudent

I have been spending this semester desperately seeking an internship in the actuarial field. Despite applying to as many as I could find (50+) and interviewing with a number of companies, I've yet to receive an offer for a summer job. I still have applications out there, and I have an interview with ISO in a week or so, but I must admit that I'm becoming increasingly skeptical.

Allow me now to go into my background, I am a junior math and economics double major at Cornell University with a 3.7 gpa. I have NOT passed any actuarial exams as of yet; I am sitting for my first in May and feel very confident that I can pass it easily (based on my background in the material, and looking at old tests). Is this lack of examinations what is causing all of my frustrations? If I do not find a summer internship, am I up a creek without a paddle for an entry level position when I graduate? What is the best area of the field to enter (I've heard P&C)?

Additionally, I've grown pessimistic in my views of the working world as a whole. In perusing the forums, I noticed that so many posts express dissatisfaction with the profession, from it's convoluted test system to the allegedly inadequate pay. I heard that this is one of the best jobs in America, why are so many people upset with it? If it is truly a bad occupation, what is a better one in a related field? Where are the people who love this job, and have found it to be lucrative? If you're one of them, it would mean the world to me just to hear that you exist.

Internships are great, but they aren't the be all and end all. Assuming you're willing to move to get a job, I wouldn't think it'd be too terribly difficult to get an entry level position if you manage to get a couple of exams under your belt before graduation.

As far as compensation goes, the thing to keep in mind is that people's perception of money changes based on how much they have. When I was a grad. student, $10K a year sounded great. At that time $50K seemed like a great salary, and $100K like a fortune. Now that over that threshold, it just seems o.k. So when you hear people griping about pay, remember that that's going to happen in pretty much any field, no matter what the compensation is. I mean jeez, look at the pro athletes who complain about being underpaid at $10 million a year

[Westley]

It's very difficult to find an internship without an exam. Not impossible, but we're going to hire every student we can find WITH an exam before we hire anybody WITHOUT.

Lots of people find an entry-level job without eevr interning. If I were you, I would be studying for my exam rather than looking for a job - you're confident, and you may be right, but you only get a couple shots befoer you graduate. Additionally, if you don't get an internship, I would spend the summer studying for the next exam (assuming you pass). That will help you find a job as much as an internship anyway.

[VaiBrasil]

Originally Posted by Westley

Lots of people find an entry-level job without eevr interning. If I were you, I would be studying for my exam rather than looking for a job - you're confident, and you may be right, but you only get a couple shots befoer you graduate. Additionally, if you don't get an internship, I would spend the summer studying for the next exam (assuming you pass). That will help you find a job as much as an internship anyway.

I completely agree. I tried to get an internship last year before I had taken the first exam and was not able to find one. I had several phone interviews, but nothing worked out. I was also confident and was able to pass exam one when I took it in May. During the summer I worked in an office environment (but not actuarial) to show that I am comfortable working in an office environment. In November I took the second exam and passed as well. Last month I interviewed with four companies and received four offers.

I'm almost glad I didn't get an internship, because I might not have had the chance to look around at other companies for a full-time job. Had the internship company offered a full-time job, I probably would have taken it to avoid the hassle of interviewing again.

Bottom line, with your resume you shouldn't have a problem finding an entry-level job with an exam passed in May and another in November. The only other thing I would be concerned with is trying to knock out the VEE next year. Putting this on your resume might help a little with your job search. Good Luck!!

[IAm@Work.com]

Originally Posted by frustratedstudent

Additionally, I've grown pessimistic in my views of the working world as a whole. In perusing the forums, I noticed that so many posts express dissatisfaction with the profession, from it's convoluted test system to the allegedly inadequate pay. I heard that this is one of the best jobs in America, why are so many people upset with it? If it is truly a bad occupation, what is a better one in a related field? Where are the people who love this job, and have found it to be lucrative? If you're one of them, it would mean the world to me just to hear that you exist.

Let this be part of your education. Perusing the forums is in no way related to learning about the real world.

You can assume that those who are having a bad day will gripe and moan in an anonymous internet forum. Those who are working or not having a bad day won't. Do you really think that seeing the gripers and moaners means that everyone in the profession is upset?

[Westley]

Originally Posted by frustratedstudent

In perusing the forums, I noticed that so many posts express dissatisfaction with the profession, from it's convoluted test system to the allegedly inadequate pay.

As for the exams, yes they are messy and convoluted. As for pay, look at the DW Simpson salary survey (link at the top of this page). It's not as much as investment bankers make, and if you live in NYC, there will be plenty of people making more than you. But, it's a lot more than the average college grad makes. Only you can decide whether the money's reasonable relative to your other options.

[Gretchen]

Originally Posted by frustratedstudent

Additionally, I've grown pessimistic in my views of the working world as a whole. In perusing the forums, I noticed that so many posts express dissatisfaction with the profession, from it's convoluted test system to the allegedly inadequate pay. I heard that this is one of the best jobs in America, why are so many people upset with it? If it is truly a bad occupation, what is a better one in a related field? Where are the people who love this job, and have found it to be lucrative? If you're one of them, it would mean the world to me just to hear that you exist.

I echo what other folks say about the internship. We do hire folks without an exam, but those with one are often given preference.

I also echo IAm@Work's comments about why you see mostly gripes here. I for one do truly enjoy my job. (I already sort of knew that, but it really hit home when I was six weeks into an eight week maternity leave and starting to get pretty antsy about going back!) And I'm pretty sure that most of the actuaries I work with would say the same.

In terms of the pay: It is a good paying job. As others have said, there are better paying jobs, and worse paying jobs. You need to decide how important money is to you. Quite frankly, while I certainly wouldn't say no to having a higher salary, I would also be quite happy with a lower one if there were reason for that. At some point, once your basic needs are met and you have a bit extra, anything beyond that is gravy - nice, but certainly not necessary.

[ben31]

the pay issue amuses me.... it is all based on your perception
I see people here that complain about 50,60,70,80k or more a year
You have to keep in mind that the adverage pay for an American is 50k, and somewhere in the 90k range you hit the top 20% pay bracket in the country.. not to shabby... you could be in the army right now getting paid 20k to get shot at

[Maine-iac]

This may be repetitive, but:

1. You are probably having difficulty getting an internship because you have no exams. You still may land one, keep plugging, but exam candidates are going to be favored.
2. Having had an internship is not that big a deal for entry level in the U.S. (Canada is a different story.) Exams are. Focus your efforts there.
3. Most actuaries enjoy the work, but when you have a frustrating day, or are facing a bad situation, this is a great place to complain and let off steam. It gives a skewed impression. And there are always a few people who start at entry level, and realize it's NOT the career for them. This creates a lot of disappointment, anxiety and sometimes bitterness until they can see a clear path on where to go next. Folks in this situation also vent here.
4. Exams stink. No two ways about it. But they do end, and life is quite good on the other side.
5. The pay is good. It will fund a quite comfortable life-style. If you hang out with investment banker types, you may feel short-changed. If all your friends are English majors and math teachers, you'll feel like Daddy Warbucks. See D.W. Simpson survey for a good idea of what to expect for salary.
6. What's the best field? You really have to work a bit to determine that for yourself. My first actuarial job was a corporate finance position at a life insurer and considered quite a plum. Personally, it was a really poor fit. I moved on to health insurance pricing work, and now P&C pricing with some reserving on the side. Much better fits for me, but there was no way to know this until I had worked for awhile. Another guy I worked with at my first company was breaking his heart in pricing, but found his niche when he got into the finance end. In your early years, there are usually opportunities to move around and try a few things out before you specialize.

So relax, pass a few exams, and see if you like this work. Good luck at your ISO interview!

[Westley]

Originally Posted by ben31

You have to keep in mind that the adverage pay for an American is 50k, and somewhere in the 90k range you hit the top 20% pay bracket in the country.. not to shabby... you could be in the army right now getting paid 20k to get shot at

Source?