I'll call you because my TPTK has to be the nuts thread

[hotkarl]

PokerStars Game #1682232282: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2005/05/12 - 01:27:09 (ET)
Table 'Sibylla II' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: bigpaul456 ($182.20 in chips)
Seat 2: sesquipedal ($462.60 in chips)
Seat 3: manifest071 ($721.45 in chips)
Seat 4: scotttta ($185.65 in chips)
Seat 5: Red To Blue ($459.70 in chips)
Seat 7: maq2000 ($231.15 in chips)
Seat 8: Reggie999 ($380 in chips)
Seat 9: jazzjay ($644 in chips)
manifest071: posts small blind $2
scotttta: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sesquipedal [Th 9h]
Red To Blue: folds
maq2000: folds
Reggie999: folds
jazzjay: folds
bigpaul456: folds
sesquipedal: calls $4
manifest071: calls $2
scotttta: raises $12 to $16
sesquipedal: calls $12
manifest071: calls $12
*** FLOP *** [Qh 6c Jd]
manifest071: checks
scotttta: bets $24
sesquipedal: calls $24
manifest071: folds
*** TURN *** [Qh 6c Jd] [8d]
scotttta: bets $24
sesquipedal: raises $398.60 to $422.60 and is all-in
scotttta: calls $121.65 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Qh 6c Jd 8d] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
scotttta: shows [Qc Ad] (a pair of Queens)
sesquipedal: shows [Th 9h] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
sesquipedal collected $384.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $387.30 | Rake $3
Board [Qh 6c Jd 8d 9s]
Seat 1: bigpaul456 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: sesquipedal (button) showed [Th 9h] and won ($384.30) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 3: manifest071 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: scotttta (big blind) showed [Qc Ad] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 5: Red To Blue folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: maq2000 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Reggie999 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: jazzjay folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Why did you call a 4x raise preflop with T9? Then, why did you call a nearly pot-sized bet with only a straight draw? This looks to me like bad play that got rewarded by an even worse play.

[Elston Gunn]

2 Table SnG last night. I get AA, raise 4x's the BB from MP. 2 callers. Flop is AdKx2x. I bet the pot, both call. Turn is the 7d. I go all in. Cards are flipped over, J10h and K8d. River is the Qd. I'm gone with the 3rd best hand. Frustrating.

Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman

Why did you call a 4x raise preflop with T9? Then, why did you call a nearly pot-sized bet with only a straight draw? This looks to me like bad play that got rewarded by an even worse play.

Are you kidding? In a cash game like that, 9Ts is a PERFECT hand to call a 4x raise. Those kind of hands are your big money makers, because fools will lose all their cash with TPTK. The other thing you will see is people that are just unable to release their AA or KK.

If you can play with any sort of skill after the flop, you should be calling all the way up to 10% of your stack preflop with a hand like that.

And then, on the flop, he was open ended. He was getting the right odds on that call, let alone the implied odds.

nice play, well done. I especially love the AI. No monkeying around. You double reverse psychologied him right into that call.

[Happy Professional]

Hypothesis: In low level SnGs ($15 and less) if you have TPTK, you should not be afraid to go or call all in after the flop because of the number of people who will call with worse kicker or middle pair or draw.

Anyone agree?

Anyone?

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Originally Posted by lawfi5h

Are you kidding? In a cash game like that, 9Ts is a PERFECT hand to call a 4x raise. Those kind of hands are your big money makers, because fools will lose all their cash with TPTK. The other thing you will see is people that are just unable to release their AA or KK.

If you can play with any sort of skill after the flop, you should be calling all the way up to 10% of your stack preflop with a hand like that.

And then, on the flop, he was open ended. He was getting the right odds on that call, let alone the implied odds.

nice play, well done. I especially love the AI. No monkeying around. You double reverse psychologied him right into that call.

I see I have much to learn. As far as the post-flop call, based on my crude calculations, there are 8 cards that save you, out of 47 unknown cards. That's a 5-1 underdog. He had to call $24 into a pot of $60, which is only a 2.5-1 payoff. I admit I don't know how to calculate implied odds, but this still looks like a strategy which will not pay off long term. I suppose if you KNEW that the other guy would call an all-in with TPTK, it makes sense, and maybe he had a read on this guy.

[MountainHawk]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman

I see I have much to learn. As far as the post-flop call, based on my crude calculations, there are 8 cards that save you, out of 47 unknown cards. That's a 5-1 underdog. He had to call $24 into a pot of $60, which is only a 2.5-1 payoff. I admit I don't know how to calculate implied odds, but this still looks like a strategy which will not pay off long term. I suppose if you KNEW that the other guy would call an all-in with TPTK, it makes sense, and maybe he had a read on this guy.

There are 2 cards to come, though.

The odds of you losing are 39/47 * 38/46 = .685. You are about a 2.2 to 1 dog.

Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman

I see I have much to learn. As far as the post-flop call, based on my crude calculations, there are 8 cards that save you, out of 47 unknown cards. That's a 5-1 underdog. He had to call $24 into a pot of $60, which is only a 2.5-1 payoff. I admit I don't know how to calculate implied odds, but this still looks like a strategy which will not pay off long term. I suppose if you KNEW that the other guy would call an all-in with TPTK, it makes sense, and maybe he had a read on this guy.

Not really. If he has 8 outs, he is 32% to win the hand (which means he is getting the right odds at 2.5-1). Since the K would give his opponent redraw outs, he is probably about 30% to win the hand, which is still the correct odds. He is 5-1 to make his hand on the turn, but his odds are much better than that to win the hand, which is the important decision to make.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Originally Posted by MountainHawk

There are 2 cards to come, though.

The odds of you losing are 39/47 * 38/46 = .685. You are about a 2.2 to 1 dog.

But you don't get to see both of those cards for free. You're only buying the turn. If that doesn't hit, you're going to have to call another bet.

[MountainHawk]

But if you do hit, you should be able to get his entire stack.

Straight odds calculations are based on the fact that you have two cards to come. If you miss on the turn, then you have to consider whether to call the river bet as a 5 to 1 dog.