It's over - Taliban and Osama won

Great strategy from Powell <sarcastic>.

Today,

1. Musharaff said the bombing has to stop by Ramadan, which is in a month I think.

2. Indonesia officialy condemned the airstrikes.

3. The Arabs are not playing with us anymore due to our silence on Israel.

4. The Muslim world is sticking to a morally reasonable line which holds weight with 75% of the world, namely that the US is a hypocrite on human rights and terrorism.

Finally,

The Taliban hasn't lost a darn thing in these strikes. They didn't even lose Mazar Sharif, which the world originally thought would be an easy win for the northern alliance.

That airdrop on the airport on Saturday was pitiful. Let's drop 100 guys to secure an empty airport, only to leave it 2 hours later. Oh yeah I forgot, we got "intelligence".

Blind patriotism can be harmful. People need to start asking hard questions.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voice of Reason on 2001-10-22 13:37 ]</font>

[Guerilla poster]

All actions are morally ambigious. What do you feel should be the US approach? Bomb Israel as well.

I don't know, other than continue to ask hard questions of our leaders.

[an2001on]

VOR, weren't you going to leave the US and go to a "safer place like Europe"? Is it what should be viewed as a "not blind" patriotism: sit in a safe place and ask hard questions? And if yes, a patrioti of what are you? (No personal offence, please, I am just trying to understand your position better.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: an2001on on 2001-10-22 14:25 ]</font>

I was going to leave to Europe if the US turned into Israel, which isn't even close to happening. By asking hard questions, we can help guide public policy, rather than have it dictated to us by potentially underqualified leaders.

[Aaron Brachowitz]

I have no problem with stopping the war during Ramadan if bin Laden agrees to stay put during that time.

I disagree with VOR's logic but agree that things are going to come to a head soon -- either we spend all our time worrying about Muslim feelings and trying to preserve a morally bankrupt coalition (Powell approach), or we get serious about taking the war to our enemies and holding them accountable for sponsoring terrorism (Rumsfeld approach). Either approach was even-money a month ago, but non-cooperation by the Saudis and Egyptians (our valued "allies" in the region) will start to work against Powell.

[Patience]

Stopping the bombing doesn't have to mean stopping the attack.

Then it becomes time for the ground troops to go in and clean up.

[an2001on]

It seems like if we worry too much about the comfort of the opponent (read enemy) we will turn to Israel shortly. Did they worry about those they killed on Sept.11? Why should we? Wait for another month and then we have to wait for extra 6 months (Afghan winter). That will give them only more time to recover and plan more attacks on us. It would seem better to finish them faster and apply all the tools we have (as they do, for example, the current bio-attack).

Also, one of the strengths of their fighters is that they are willing to die and believe their God would only appreciate it. I think that was one of the reasons that for a while Israel did not have a death penalty for Palestinian terrorists. Is there something that destroys that image of the Holy Warriors and sends them straight to hell by Koran standard (like getting pork fat before death or something)? I don't remember the details but I heard on the radio that there was some trouble in Singapore a while ago done by some Muslim terrorists. After they were caught (something like several dozens), they were forced to do something (I don’t remember what exactly) which is considered a great sin by Koran. After that they were all executed but three who were let go to tell their “brothers” about the punishment. Singapore had no problems since. Did anybody else hear the story? I heard it on the radio a week or two ago. I don’t know if it’s true but it seems to fit the military tradition of ancient China and Japan to get rid of the enemy completely to avoid any future trouble (and not to worry about their feelings!).

[Patience]

an2001on:

I agree with most of what you are saying. & Arabs seemed to have no problem starting a war on Yom Kippur.

The issue is more how things will be perceived by those whose support we want rather than what the enemy thinks.

_________________
Patience is a virtue

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Patience on 2001-10-22 15:35 ]</font>

[Mr. Grim]

My prediction is Osama and the Taliban are dead before the start of Ramadan. Don't believe the Taliban hype - VOR.