Anthrax

[Kimi]

I've been thinking if there is anything that I/we can do as individuals to protect against biological threats. At this point, here is what I (actually with the help of some) have come up with.

P100/N100 Dust Mask ($8):
As someone has mentioned the P100 or N100 particulate filtration rating is supposed to provide good protection against inhaling the Small Pox particulate, the Anthrax spore particulate and the Tuberculosis particulate. CNN reported on these masks briefly. These ratings however do not protect against the nerve gas or tear gas agents. I got one in my desk drawer at work, one in my glove compartment, and one mashed up in my purse. They basically look like your $0.10 dust mask you can get at any drug store but a bit more robust. Mine was about $8 each. The P100 (only about $0.50 more than the N100) is slightly better than the N100 because it also filters out some oil-based particulates. I know you can not wear these 24/7 but I figure if some mail room alter gets called I’ll just slip one on.

Bleach/Clorox:
Also, anyone know how effective bleach is at killing anthrax spores? I read that it is effective to some degree but how and at what concentration? Someone was asking me about putting a small open jar of bleach in her mail box so that by the time she gets her mail, any potential Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side (and perhaps any inside) of the envelop would be dead. I think I am more concerned about Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side of the envelop than having any deliberately mail to me in an envelope. Perhaps spraying my mail with a bleach water solution will work also work. What is the risk or threat level of mail having come through a post office which an Anthrax tainted letter also passed through?

Any thoughts?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimi on 2001-10-25 23:36 ]</font>

[Gomer]

The strains of anthrax found so far are the potent, military grade that is highly resistant to surface disinfection with bleach.

The mask won't save you. If you don't know there is anthrax in the environment, you won't be wearing the mask. If you do, you'll be put on 60 day cipro like everyone else and be fine.

Unless you wear the mask 24/7, you are no better off than someone not wearing it at all. And even then, a simple dust mask is not nearly 100% effective. For that, you need the whole enviro-suit/respirator dealy.

(Edited for spelling.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gomer on 2001-10-26 10:46 ]</font>

[Kimi]

“The strains of anthrax found so far are the potent, military grade that is highly resistant to surface disinfection with bleach.” by Gomer.

Not to doubt you but I’m interested in your source to look into it more. I thought that the military grade, weaponized Anthrax was refined for two features: (1) to clump less at float more (something about being attached to dust particles) and (2) more resistant to Ciprofloxacin.


“If you do [know that anthrax is in your environment], you'll be put on 60 day cipro like everyone else and be fine.” by Gomer.

Something that concerns me is that if some mail room alter occurs then people are confined to, for example, the same floor but a different room to avoid further contamination. This seems to be done until more reliable tests can be done at which point, if there is Anthrax, then the decontaminating showers are performed, etc.. (This is the protocol that occurred in my city on a false alarm (they did not get to the decontaminating but they did confine all employees to the floor).) I’m thinking, well, even with the Ciprofloxacin I would still prefer a few thousand less Anthrax spores that I may get in the time being quarantined.


”Unless you wear the mask 24/7, you are no better off than someone not wearing it at all. And even then, a simple dust mask is not nearly 100% effective. For that, you need the whole enviro-suit/respirator dealy.” By Gomer.

Perhaps I was not clear. I used the term dust mask to describe what the P100/N100-grade dust masks looks like. The P100/N100-grade dust mask is supposed to provide protection against inhaling the Small Pox particulate, the Anthrax spore particulate and even the Tuberculosis particulate. CNN briefly reported on this and the 3M catalog listed the P100 rating on their $300 Nuclear/Biological/Chemical gas masks. The P100 is the rating that protects against inhaling the Biological particulate. As for the suit, well cutaneous Anthrax is not what I am worried about because there is an indicating rash which is treatable. I know that we can not protect against everything. But it seems like $8 P100/N100-grade dust mask can provide a worthwhile amount of protection.

I do find it interesting that people have the cutaneous Anthrax and not the inhalational Anthrax. This tells me that there can be an indication of inhalational Anthrax risk.

[42]

We interrupt this thread for this breaking story about the most recent attack on a postal worker. No, not anthrax. This time it's bleach. Some wacko left a booby-trap in her mail box. When the letter carrier delivered this woman's mail, he came in contact with a small jar of bleach that had been hidden in the mail box, and severely burned his hand. The woman was arrested, strip-searched, and charged with assault. The letter carrier is suing her, and mail service has been discontinued to all homes within a 5-mile radius of her house. We now return you to your normal thread.

Or, to make a short story long: sometimes the "cure" is worse than the "disease".

[The Mister]

<font size=2>I've touched bleach before, and it doesn't burn my skin. What did she do? Get some sort of laboratory-grade concentrate?

[Kimi]

I would label the jar and touch bases with the mail carrier/local post office.

[Gomer]

Kimi, it sounds like you've really done your homework. I concede that wearing a less than 100% effective dust mask less than 100% of the time would provide SOME protection. But on a cost-benefit basis, I can't see wearing this thing 24/7, or even carrying it around in case something turns up.

The trick to surviving anthrax is to not be the first to exhibit symptoms from any given exposure. As long as that is the case, the mask isn't really necessary, in my mind. And if you are the first, the mask would have helped only if it had been worn at the time of exposure, ie. worn 24/7.

Keeping things in perspective here: there have been three deaths, and will perhaps be one or two more (that we know of) at this point. The anthrax threat to the average citizen in miniscule. Given all that, any expenditure of time or money seems out of proportion to me.

My counter-anthrax strategy is to stay out of mail rooms and Senate buildings in the DC area. Cost = $0.

But, go for it, if you want. Everybody has a different perspective.

[Actuary321]

On 2001-10-25 23:34, Kimi wrote:
Bleach/Clorox:
Also, anyone know how effective bleach is at killing anthrax spores? I read that it is effective to some degree but how and at what concentration? Someone was asking me about putting a small open jar of bleach in her mail box so that by the time she gets her mail, any potential Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side (and perhaps any inside) of the envelop would be dead. I think I am more concerned about Anthrax spores hitchhiking on the out side of the envelop than having any deliberately mail to me in an envelope. Perhaps spraying my mail with a bleach water solution will work also work. What is the risk or threat level of mail having come through a post office which an Anthrax tainted letter also passed through?

Any thoughts?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimi on 2001-10-25 23:36 ]</font>

I keep an open bottle of Clorox next to my toilet to kill those germs too, do you think it works?

[Kimi]

On 2001-10-26 00:15, E. Blackadder wrote:
If you want to clean your clock, just add ammonia to the bleach.

Does ammonia work to kill anthrax spores? I know that ammonia is strong and I think if I were to use it, I would doe it in like my own covered container and not in the mailbox.

[Gomer]

I think Blackadder was joking. If you mix ammonia and bleach you get an extremely hazardous gas that can cause severe respiratory distress.

As for the decontamination properties of ammonia - I don't know. But if I thought an area needed decontamination, I'd leave it to the authorities.