Time for US and SA to go separate ways?

[Aaron Brachowitz]

Y'all must be studying 'cause it sure is quiet around here.

WSJ today published an excellent editorial questioning the viability of continued US-Saudi relations. You can probably view it online if you're willing to register.

"...the strains of the war on terrorism are revealing that the long-standing US-Saudi bargain can't hold. In return for oil and the occasional pro-American vote at the UN, Washington has looked the other way at Saudi Arabia's precarious politics."

The Saudis "have declined to participate in an international consortium of more than 80 nations that have agreed to block the assets of terrorist groups."

"US support for the House of Saud has now yielded Saudi support for those waging war on the US homeland. If a more radical regime is going to take hold in Saudi Arabia, better to face that fact sooner rather than later. Coping with an overtly hostile Saudi government would at least have the virtue of clarity that doesn't exist today."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aaron Brachowitz on 2001-10-30 09:57 ]</font>

Yes, let's alienate and make enemies of more Arabs on the advice of pro-Israel fanatics like you. Maybe we can bomb Saudi children also?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Voice of Reason on 2001-10-30 12:47 ]</font>

[Dr T Non-Fan]

Problem is that SA has something that we want. And it influences a lot of other countries who have the same thing.

Israel has something the politicians want.

I wish it were easier to understand. Then some of us wouldn't have to resort to poor debating tactics.

[Enough Exams Already]

I say that if Saudi Arabia wants to keep having it both ways, then let's take the opportunity to cut back our involvement and dependence on them.

After the direct operation in Afghanistan is over:

1.) Withdraw from and phase out Prince Sultan AFB. Instead, build up the base in Bahrain. In fact, it might be possible to build a Joint Theater Operations base in Qatar, much like TANGO in Korea.
2.) Heavily fund technologies that eliminate our dependence on Arabian oil.
3.) Phase out foreign aid to Saudi Arabia, including paying off any deficits to them and calling any loans extended. (I'm not sure if they're a creditor of the US or a debtor--does anyone know?)
4.) Avoid any involvement in foreign affairs on their behalf. So when Iraq goes on the march again, when they ask for help, we say, "Sorry, we decline to participate." I'm not saying take up action against them--no bombing involved, VoR--just don't help them out of a jam.

If they don't want to help us, they they must not want our money, either. Seems like simple enough solution to me.

(Edited for spelling)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Enough Exams Already on 2001-10-30 13:25 ]</font>

Is Turkey a country we could be building up as a counterweight in the region? I don't know much about them (other than they go well with a nice Zinfindel), but my not-very-well-informed impressions are: They are both Muslim and are culturally well-tied-in to the West. (They're in NATO!) They have a reasonably functional republican democracy.

Do I have it more-or-less right? Heck, why not go whole (metaphorical) hog and bring back the Ottoman Empire? Could it be worse?

[Enough Exams Already]

On 2001-10-30 13:28, Choam Nomsky wrote:
Is Turkey a country we could be building up as a counterweight in the region? I don't know much about them (other than they go well with a nice Zinfindel), but my not-very-well-informed impressions are: They are both Muslim and are culturally well-tied-in to the West. (They're in NATO!) They have a reasonably functional republican democracy.

Do I have it more-or-less right? Heck, why not go whole (metaphorical) hog and bring back the Ottoman Empire? Could it be worse?

They are in NATO, and Ataturk did manage to Westernize them somewhat. But their economy has fits of hyperinflation at times. (Maybe a military base would help? Who can say?)

Strategically, I think we'd still need a base closer to the Indian Ocean. And I'm not sure whether Turkey is experiencing the same wave of fundamentalism that most of Arabia has been feeling in the recent past.

Zinfandel? With turkey? Isn't Zinfandel really heavy and tannic, like a Barolo? Doesn't the flavor of the meat get lost?

Original WSJ piece, no reg required, is available at their website: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...ml?id=95001394

The Zin's I've had have all been full and fruity, not tannic at all. Haven't had a barolo, so I can't make that comparison. Good Zin's can often been had cheap, too.

[Guerilla poster]

How involved would we be in the Middle East if it was not for oil?

My guess is that it would be treated like Africa. The one weight against that is the amount of political influence the Jewish voice has in America due to the political system (I should say campaign contribution system as less 5% of the population is Jewish and most of that is centered in New York)

Before the creation of Israel, did the US have any problems with the Middle East?

I don't remember Sirhan Sirhan's grandfather trying to assasinate Roosevelt.

[Enough Exams Already]

On 2001-10-30 14:40, Voice of Reason wrote:
Before the creation of Israel, did the US have any problems with the Middle East?

I don't remember Sirhan Sirhan's grandfather trying to assasinate Roosevelt.

You mean besides the Ottoman Empire's joining Germany at al. in World War I?