Learning Languages (Outside of Formal Classes)

[Maxprime]

Has anyone actually been successful in learning a foreign language outside of a class setting? (Who isn't sick of my traveling threads yet? ). I know Spanish and can brush up via those stupid tapes/CD's because it'll force me to speak it. But to learn a language from scratch (Italian from Spanish is not a huge jump) - what do you suggest? I would assume the best bet would be to buy a regular textbook and study it - then listen to those tapes.

[kes13]

You're going to want tapes of any language you decide to learn. Pronunciations and accents can vary even among similar languages. (That was always my biggest problem when learning new languages. I can write my foreign languages okay, but fail miserably at speaking them.)

[Maine-iac]

I haven't done this, but I've been told by several sources that if you can get it, the best thing to do is to watch a TV station where they speak the language you are trying to learn. (Obviously, finding a spanish language station is easy, french is possible, and beyond that it can get tough.)

If you can watch people and take cues from their expressions and behaviors as to what is going on, things supposedly "click" much faster. You also get a good feel for common idioms.

I was told that soap operas were particularly good to watch. The plots are obvious, and people say basically what you expect them to say. You aren't looking for subtlety here.

[Maxprime]

Originally Posted by Maine-iac

I haven't done this, but I've been told by several sources that if you can get it, the best thing to do is to watch a TV station where they speak the language you are trying to learn. (Obviously, finding a spanish language station is easy, french is possible, and beyond that it can get tough.)

If you can watch people and take cues from their expressions and behaviors as to what is going on, things supposedly "click" much faster. You also get a good feel for common idioms.

I was told that soap operas were particularly good to watch. The plots are obvious, and people say basically what you expect them to say. You aren't looking for subtlety here.

+1 for this. We watched Destinos in high school, very good stuff. I agree that speaking/listening to the key - but I figured that you need an academic knowledge of the language before trying to converse. I've only learned in a formal setting, so I don't know if this is right or wrong.

Do a search - I think there were threads on this before. I liked the Pimsleur CDs for French I. Never tried putting it into practice though and now it's a bit rusty.

[Alto Reed on a Tenor Sax]

If you are serious, go Pimsleur comprehensive for the "intuitive" approach. Do the whole series, all 90 lessons, and you will have great pronunciation, and a "feel" for the language, and a small but useful working vocabulary.

THEN get a textbook, an old-school textbok with lots of exercises and few to none of those fruity pictures and "culture lessons" that are all the rave. Do that cover to cover for grammar, and then start practicing whenever you possibly can.

One little trick I did, to: I would buy CD's in the target language, and translate the lyrics into english. Bonus points if you can keep the same rhyme scheme as in the original language.

Originally Posted by Maxprime

Has anyone actually been successful in learning a foreign language outside of a class setting?

Yep. I have Korean friends who speak the Egyptian Arabic dialect because they grew up in Egypt and spoke Arabic with the locals. I learnt Arabic by watching Egyptian soap operas. They had the English translation at the bottom of the screen, and that's how I would learn what words in English mean in Arabic.

Originally Posted by Maxprime

I would assume the best bet would be to buy a regular textbook and study it

Not necessarily the case with all languages. The spoken oral language is sometimes very different from the written classical language. Depends on what you want to learn the language for, I guess...

[ACCtuary]

Originally Posted by Maine-iac

I haven't done this, but I've been told by several sources that if you can get it, the best thing to do is to watch a TV

Language is learned orally and through speaking, not primarily through reading and writing.

If you must use this method, I suggest watching a translation of a movie you've already seen.

I have met people who tried to learn English by this method and it fails because it is not interactive. You want a method where you practice listening, then talking. Even the dumb methods of this are reasonably effective.

I often ask - if I had to learn a language quickly, what would I want to know?

Words for Doctor, Help, Where is the Restaurant
Words for may I have....What is your special of the day? May I help you?

Where is the nearest...(bathroom, doctor, hotel, brothel)

Numbers 1-100 so you can understand purhase amounts

Demonstrative pronouns This,These,those so you can point at something and purchase it.

Parts of the body so you can tell a doctor what hurts.

Directions and distances. Left, Right, Straight Ahead, First, Second, Third, Road, Street, Traffic Light

Expressions of time - but you can often read schedules for this - so you can understand railroad and airport announcements.

Do you know anybody who speaks English?

PLEASE (and the cultural equivalents)

[ACCtuary]

Originally Posted by urysohn

Do a search - I think there were threads on this before. I liked the Pimsleur CDs for French I. Never tried putting it into practice though and now it's a bit rusty.

For French - the Parle Express French in Action series gets you to a functional tourist level of French very quickly.

[Roomba]

Originally Posted by ACCtuary

Language is learned orally and through speaking, not primarily through reading and writing.

I agree. Without dialogue with others who speak the language, you will not gain more than a basic level of comprehension. You will spend most of your time translating and much less speaking. Listen -> translate -> comprehend… Determine response -> translate -> speak. The translating will take 5-10 times the other steps. If that’s a level of proficiency that you’re comfortable with, then watching dubbed movies or foreign language television is a great supplement to books and tapes/CDs.

If you want to get to the point where you don’t have to translate at each step, then you need to have the foreign dialogue. It forces you’re mind to work much quicker and to think in the language. Until you can do that, you won't be able to do much more than order food at restaurants and maybe ask for directions.