Report details failure of U.S. prison system

[a9]

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

oh I wonder about this, too. I mean, we've agreed that 99% of poor and 99% of middle class end up where they started. With such high numbers ending up where they started, how much does a member of either group REALLY have to do with their own situation?

Actually, we didn't agree on those numbers. I merely said that if it were as high as 99%, that wouldn't change my opinion. People make choices constantly. Those choices affect their lives.

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

Well, drug use is certainly a crime today. But think about it this way: you're middle class and depressed. You go to the doctor and get Prozac then you feel a little better.

You're poor and depressed. You go to the crck dealer, get some rocks, and then you feel better...especially when you follow it up with some pot to calm the nerves.

One is OK. One is a crime. But what's the difference? really? what's the difference?

The difference is that one is legal and one isn't. If we all just break laws that we don't like, we'd have total anarchy. If you don't like a law, try to change it. I'm guessing that the people who are doing the illegal drugs that you are referring to wouldn't be satisfied with a Prozac high.

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

Our annual budget is $2.5 TRILLION a year...at the federal level. You can;t solve poverty with that?? Come on. That's enough money to turn the bottom 1% of the country into millionaires. I dont advocate redistribution (not to the poor, and I do not support our current redistribution to old people) but clearly we are not doing enough for the poor, are we??

The only points that I made were that giving them handouts isn't the answer, and they have responsibility for themselves.

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

So you would say then that it has nothing to do with over patrolling of poor neighborhoods by police?

If the drug rate among the poor is as high as you claim then no, I think the police should increase their patrols.

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

Nothing to do with the fact that middle class anti-depressant use is OK, but poor people's drug use is a crime?

One is a crime and one isn't. The poor people can certainly obtain Prozac if that's what they really want. They don't. If they want drugs that are against the law then, once again, they have choices... try to change the laws, or break the laws. Yes, they should go to jail if they choose the latter.

Your original position was that the poor are destined to remain poor. Yet you say they choose to take handouts instead of striving towards the "middle class." I think that pretty much proves my point... if they wanted to change their situation, they could. If they choose not to, I don't think we should support them.

[ShebaPoe]

Originally Posted by a9

If they choose not to, I don't think we should support them.

We may disagree philosophically on treatment of the poor, and this

But on this I must object. If we do not support them with handouts, we will be supporting prisons, which is much MORE expensive.

Where do you want to spend it?

It's not like prisons make the problems go away.

[TakeNine]

Yes, the U.S. prison system is failing.

Perhaps you heard about a septuple murder in Middle America last week. The triggerman was previously sentenced to a 6 year prison term. In 2002. The U.S. prison system failed by letting him go. If he were serving his full term, seven people would be alive right now.

[TakeNine]

It might be a good idea to separate into two topics. One, should drug laws and punishment be reformed? Two, should violent prisoners be let back on the streets?

Rehabilitation is a worthwhile goal. However, it fails very often. Three strikes laws are appealing in that someone who's in prison a third time for a felony is unlikely ever to be rehabilitated, and society just has to cut its losses.

[2pac Shakur]

Originally Posted by TakeNine

Yes, the U.S. prison system is failing.

Perhaps you heard about a septuple murder in Middle America last week. The triggerman was previously sentenced to a 6 year prison term. In 2002. The U.S. prison system failed by letting him go. If he were serving his full term, seven people would be alive right now.

Luckily there's never been an innocent man sent to jail.

[The African Queen]

Originally Posted by TakeNine

Yes, the U.S. prison system is failing.

Perhaps you heard about a septuple murder in Middle America last week. The triggerman was previously sentenced to a 6 year prison term. In 2002. The U.S. prison system failed by letting him go. If he were serving his full term, seven people would be alive right now.

Of course, those 7 people (or 7 others) would likely have been murdered in 2008 after being released at the right time.

If the poor have money to buy drugs, why don't they put the money to better (legal) use?

[Incredible Hulctuary]

The problem is not so much with the prison system as it it is with a socioeconomic and political system that drives people towards a life of crime at a rate much higher than other developed countries.

The prison system is a symptom of the underlying societal disease (although it is part of the problem, with its tendency to release people who are more violent than when they first went in).

[HangerAngler]

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

So you would say then that it has nothing to do with over patrolling of poor neighborhoods by police?

MattTS, are you implying that the residents of poor neighborhoods want less police presence in their neighborhoods?

It sounds like you are, but I don't believe that you could believe that.

[Foamy]

Originally Posted by MattTheSkywalker

LOL if you think the legal system is a "justice system".

I do, except I don't think enough people go to jail.

[The Drunken Actuary]

Originally Posted by 2pac Shakur

Why do you think they are poor in the first place?
It's because they are dumb.
Oh yea, and lazy.

And it's all their own fault. I saw a show about some mexican immigrants who put three kids through college by collecting tin cans. Just show a little iniaitive you lazy dummies! Anyone can succeed if they just try hard enough.