Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions

Search Actuarial Jobs by State @ DWSimpson.com:
AL AK AR AZ CA CO CT DE FL GA HI ID IL IN IA KS KY LA
ME MD MA MI MN MS MO MT NE NH NJ NM NY NV NC ND
OH OK OR PA RI SC SD TN TX UT VT VA WA WV WI WY

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:21 AM
Maine-iac's Avatar
Maine-iac Maine-iac is offline
Member
CAS SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: The Pine Tree State
Favorite beer: Wine
Posts: 35,808
Default

Just from an strictly economic viewpoint, it would be good to move to a different company than the one where your wife-to-be will be working. Suppose your company fell on hard times and started layoffs. Do you want both incomes to be vulnerable at once?

That aside, I've worked in both health (medical) and P&C, though I moved the other way. I found them similar enough that the transition was not overly traumatic. Since you haven't passed any SOA/CAS specific exams yet, it would be a good time to switch if you are so inclined. The main drawback to medical vs. P&C is excessive regulatory scrutiny. You may have seen it on the P&C side, but you don't begin to understand how bad it can get until you do health insurance. I didn't find it a deal killer, though. Just the downside of an otherwise interesting job.

I won't comment on your salary.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:23 AM
littlebull littlebull is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 140
Default

w/ your experience you'd be making $44,000 w/ exam P, FM, and the Economics VEE. If you add the other VEEs and Exam M, adjust that to $49,000. This is from a P&C consulting company in TN- low cost of living. You are drastically underpaid.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:46 AM
IMP's Avatar
IMP IMP is offline
= I Must Pass
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: in my pants, and yours
Studying for drinking
Favorite beer: blue moon....cuz i'm a female
Posts: 31,813
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommie frazier
however, using the salary survey as the point in your discussion is not advised. fiind westley's post on the topic. you should stress all the things you do well, and then say while you feel appreciated on some levels, you appear grossly underpaid by larger industry scale, and ask why.
exactly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patience View Post
that's why they invented doggy style
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:48 AM
tommie frazier tommie frazier is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Favorite beer: The kind with 2 e's
Posts: 23,259
Default

I also disagree with the 3 or 4 year thing. that assumes (to me) that the disparity between actual and market salary is reasonable or slight. what one doesn't want is a too-short stint on the resume so as to appear like a job hopper. applying and being able to explain (it will be on job app) thet you felt underpaid rel to industry norm now is not a bad idea if the disparity is likely to be seen as glaring. but he also has to have other reasons for leaving or the new employer might feel like he'll pick up and leave there if there is more money to be had elsewhere.

staying 2 more years at that job will cost him at least 1k/month. at his current salary, that is a significant amount.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:54 AM
Westley's Avatar
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,460
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommie frazier
fiind westley's post on the topic.
Oh, good advice!

The lowest salary for anybody with my company that has two exams is $56k - not a star performer, not in a COL as high as yours, less experience than you. Then again, we hire pretty talented people - no guarantee you could get a job here, and I bet we work more hours than you do.

My (biased by my experience) advice: companies that are so far from the norm don't change overnight. If people leave, they may bump the pay scale up to where you are "only" 20% underpaid. And, you won't lose much by moving - the concern should be whether you think a health job sounds interesting. If you do, then interview. If you like the people and the salary, then move.

If you're not tied to Cali, you could literally move to Des Moines for a job that pays on the low end of the market and your wife wouldn't even have to find a job in order for you to improve your standard of living.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:55 AM
_BullDog_'s Avatar
_BullDog_ _BullDog_ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Favorite beer: Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout
Posts: 22,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley
Oh, good advice!

The lowest salary for anybody with my company that has two exams is $56k - not a star performer, not in a COL as high as yours, less experience than you. Then again, we hire pretty talented people - no guarantee you could get a job here, and I bet we work more hours than you do.

My (biased by my experience) advice: companies that are so far from the norm don't change overnight. If people leave, they may bump the pay scale up to where you are "only" 20% underpaid. And, you won't lose much by moving - the concern should be whether you think a health job sounds interesting. If you do, then interview. If you like the people and the salary, then move.

If you're not tied to Cali, you could literally move to Des Moines and your wife wouldn't even have to find a job in order for you to improve your standard of living.
And I hear Des Moines is nice this time of year.
__________________
bulldogbrute.mybrute.c
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-26-2006, 10:06 AM
BubbaTheLoveSponge's Avatar
BubbaTheLoveSponge BubbaTheLoveSponge is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 17
Default

I was in a very similar situation to you when I recieve my first annual review. I had 2 exams and was gettting a raise TO the level you were at. There are others factors in a job besides pay and happiness. How are the benefits ? how is the exam "plan" (study time, bonuses for passing, etc.) ? Do you get a bonus every year ? What is the 401k plan like ?

In my personal situation, I took the advice of several people on other similar threads here, and basically told my boss that I was happy and didn't want to stop working there, but I felt I was being put close to not having a choice. What followed was two raises in the mid-teens percentage wise.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-26-2006, 10:07 AM
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Coney Island
Posts: 6,495
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley
The lowest salary for anybody with my company that has two exams is $56k - not a star performer, not in a COL as high as yours, less experience than you.
Two exams, less experience than 1 year and 4 months, and he/she's making $56K? Holy cow, that's almost $20K more than what I was making several years ago, at the tail end of my tenure with my first employer -- with four exams under my black belt in karate.

Can I send you my résumé, Wes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westley
Then again, we hire pretty talented people - no guarantee you could get a job here...
Oh, never mind.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-26-2006, 10:47 AM
persephone_ashes's Avatar
persephone_ashes persephone_ashes is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 2,638
Default

i turned down a job in woodlands/LA area for high 40's straight out of college (9 months of internship + 1 exam and waiting on results for 3) because it wasn't enough money. they said that they could try to find more but i knew that at my level they weren't going to find enough for me to be able to make a semi decent living there (or at least the semi-decent living I had become used to). this was a couple years ago. you've got more exams and more experience so i'd definately say that you've got a valid argument.

if the company isn't willing to do something about it and you're not getting that value elsewhere (beneficial training, benefits, study time, etc) I say walk. start putting out feelers and get an idea of the opportunities out there. the more criteria you have the more time its going to take to find the right fit so i'd start looking now even if you are going to wait for exam results to try to knock some sense into your company. good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-26-2006, 11:11 AM
yanz's Avatar
yanz yanz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,921
Default

Boston has high COL and you'd be making at least high 40s here with that experience/exam level. Likely even over 50, and this info is based on salary levels at two companies I'm aware of shere some students complain that they're underpaid. So I agree that you are underpaid as well.
Anyway, if you have no bonuses, I assume you at least have exam raises? Are they substantial to make up for the low salary?
You potentially have an argument that with the wedding approaching, you simply cannot survive on that salary. You are essentially spending 80%+ of your salary just on rent. That's not right. If you really want to stay at the company (because you like the company specifically, not bc you don't want to switch to health), you may be able to approach you manager with that factoid, but I would look for another offer while you're at it, so that you have something to fall back to if the answer is "no."
If you do end up leaving the company, I think it would help to be very clear that you really enjoyed working there, but you simply could not afford to live at that salary level [now that you are trying to start a family].
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.47731 seconds with 7 queries