Try this adventurous position

[Shaft]

Originally Posted by Mel-o-rama

...But what to do after 1. Bg3 Bh5 ? Dag nab it!!!...

Yeah that bish is a killer, we need a murder in the cathedral.....

[Mel-o-rama]

Okay, I think I'm ready for a hint. I have two yes/no questions.

#1) We've identified 3 obvious forcing moves, to which I've been devoting a lot of energy. Is the first move any of the following three choices?
Nc6+
Bf2+
e8 (promote to any piece)
There may be other not-so-obvious forcing moves. Your answer would help me determine whether to keep looking at those lines, or look for something completely different.

#2) It's a simple task for white to force black to give up a minor for the e-pawn. And there are many lines that lead to a situation where black is just one pawn ahead. And that extra pawn happens to be an outside passer. I'm guessing this would be a win for black.

Is the following reasoning correct? Black is willing to give up one minor for the e pawn as she can still win. However, black is not willing to give up two minors for the pawn, since white would win.

[Shaft]

As I like your cheeky little avatoar, and feeling deeply motivated at the site of a headless turkey watching over this forum to help others at this time of year let me give you more than 1 hint:

Originally Posted by Mel-o-rama

Is the first move any of the following three choices?
Nc6+
Bf2+
e8 (promote to any piece)

HINT # 1: Yes one of these 3 moves is the right start.

Originally Posted by Mel-o-rama

Is the following reasoning correct? Black is willing to give up one minor for the e pawn as she can still win. However, black is not willing to give up two minors for the pawn, since white would win.

HINT #2: No this is not correct reasoning.

[Mel-o-rama]

I'm still working on this. (Had to take a break - though my subconcious hasn't stopped, and I've found that I have the whole position memorized now.) It feels like you've given all the hints we need. Now, we just need the Eureka moment that puts it all together. One hint in particular is that you said the winning line is entirely forced. So, if we're going down a line and come to a place where black has more than one "good" choice, then that line is not the solution. (Then again, how does one know when black has more than one "good" choice?) Back to the grindstone go I!

[Car'a'carn]

Since computers can not find it will not be a checkmate forced line. IMO the winning line should be something like: while threatening checkmate or queen promotion white wins a piece, after that the e pawn should cost black another piece and the rest is easy.

I haven't been able to figure out the first part though.

[Shaft]

Originally Posted by Car'a'carn

Since computers can not find it will not be a checkmate forced line.

The winning line is a forced checkmate. It's long (and has two branches) but forced!

Computers use algorithms designed by humans based on chess judgment. Branching is stopped at certain stages because the algorithm is instructed to stop if certain parameters are fulfilled.

Originally Posted by Car'a'carn

IMO the winning line should be something like: while threatening checkmate or queen promotion white wins a piece, after that the e pawn should cost black another piece and the rest is easy.

I haven't been able to figure out the first part though.

Keep trying....

Let me know when it has proved too frustrating.

[Abstract Actuary]

Thus the first moves must be

Nf6+ (the only other check is the bishop check, but after Kg7 there is no check)
Black must play Kg7, since g6 would lead to Bh5 followed by queening and Kh8 or Kg8 would lead to a queening with check.
The next move must be Nh5+ since Ne8+ followed by Kf8 and White has no more checks and can't queen.

Thus, I think it has to begin

Nf6+ Kg7
Nh5+

[Car'a'carn]

Originally Posted by Shaft

The winning line is a forced checkmate. It's long (and has two branches) but forced!

Computers use algorithms designed by humans based on chess judgment. Branching is stopped at certain stages because the algorithm is instructed to stop if certain parameters are fulfilled.

I did not know how computer chess algorithms work. So it is easy then, checkmate in ___ (fill the blanks).

Originally Posted by Shaft

Keep trying....

Let me know when it has proved too frustrating.

I know where to find the solution .

[Abstract Actuary]

Originally Posted by Abstract Actuary

Thus the first moves must be

Nf6+ (the only other check is the bishop check, but after Kg7 there is no check)
Black must play Kg7, since g6 would lead to Bh5 followed by queening and Kh8 or Kg8 would lead to a queening with check.
The next move must be Nh5+ since Ne8+ followed by Kf8 and White has no more checks and can't queen.

Thus, I think it has to begin

Nf6+ Kg7
Nh5+

Black must play Kg6 because Kh7 leads to Bc2+ followed by c8=Q+.

So

Nf6+ Kg7
Nh5+ Kg6


Now, I think White must play Nf4+ (since the Bishop check loses the knight and I don't see sufficient mating material after that.

So

Nf6+ Kg7
Nh5+ Kg6
Nf4+

[Abstract Actuary]

Originally Posted by Abstract Actuary

Black must play Kg6 because Kh7 leads to Bc2+ followed by c8=Q+.

So

Nf6+ Kg7
Nh5+ Kg6


Now, I think White must play Nf4+ (since the Bishop check loses the knight and I don't see sufficient mating material after that.

So

Nf6+ Kg7
Nh5+ Kg6
Nf4+

Sorry, I have the letters backwards

Nc6+ Kb7
Na5+ Kb6
Nc4+